Talk:Steamboat Willie

Steamboat Willie (final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 22 January 2024 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Steamboat Willie article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 18, 2007, November 18, 2011, November 18, 2014, and November 18, 2016.

Animation: American / Films Top‑importance

	Animation portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Animation, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to animation on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, help out with the open tasks, or contribute to the discussion.AnimationWikipedia:WikiProject AnimationTemplate:WikiProject AnimationAnimation articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the American animation work group (assessed as Top-importance).
	This article is supported by the Animated films work group (assessed as Top-importance).

Disney Top‑importance

	Disney portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disney, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of The Walt Disney Company and its affiliated companies on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DisneyWikipedia:WikiProject DisneyTemplate:WikiProject DisneyDisney articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Comedy Top‑importance

	Comedy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Comedy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of comedy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ComedyWikipedia:WikiProject ComedyTemplate:WikiProject ComedyComedy articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Film: American / Animated

	Film portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Film. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the guidelines.FilmWikipedia:WikiProject FilmTemplate:WikiProject Filmfilm articles
	This article is supported by the American cinema task force.
	This article is supported by the Animated films task force.

Library of Congress Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Library of Congress, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Library of Congress on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Library of CongressWikipedia:WikiProject Library of CongressTemplate:WikiProject Library of CongressLibrary of Congress articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

United States: Animation / Cinema Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Animation portal This article is supported by WikiProject Animation - American animation work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	Film portal This article is supported by WikiProject Film - American cinema task force (assessed as Low-importance).

July 29th or November 18th?

Half of the sources I look at say that today is the 80th anniversary of Steamboat Willie, but the other half are saying it's November 18th. Which is it? 67.186.163.48 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Referencing and OR issues

This article still contains WP:OR and lack of Referencing issues. Multiple subsections have zero cites whatsoever, and some such as Controversies and Copyright have entire paragraphs with no reference information to back them up. Cirt (talk) 14:40, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Threaten to Sue?

The section on Copyright Status says "Disney later threatened to sue a Georgetown University law student who wrote a paper confirming Brown's claims". However, none of the citations on that section seem to back that up. They're only links to the research papers. In a brief Google search, I couldn't find an independent source to backup this sentence. Hardburn (talk) 14:01, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Steamboat Bill Jr. citation

The article states "The title of the film is a parody of the Buster Keaton film Steamboat Bill, Jr. (1928)" and has a citation ([4] as I write this), but that citation itself doesn't mention Steamboat Bill Jr. at all.

The Steamboat Bill, Jr. article cites a different source for this supposed connection (Uytdewilligen, Ryan (2016). The 101 Most Influential Coming-of-age Movies. Algora Publishing. pp. 17–18. ISBN 978-1-62894-194-4.) which can be viewed here (link), but that source just makes a throwaway claim that the Keaton film was the inspiration but appears to not support that conclusion with any citations of its own. Ergo, I am updating the article to replace the irrelevant citation with the one in the Keaton film article and altering the text to replace "is" with "may be" as follows: "The title of the film may be a parody of the Buster Keaton film Steamboat Bill, Jr. (1928),[4] itself a reference to the song by Collins." MrNeutronSF (talk) 04:05, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong

This is wrong the first cartoon with sound is song car tunes by Max fleischers studios of inkwell in 1926 steamboat willie if the first one with music not sound 216.30.159.109 (talk) 16:01, 25 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

#Republican_opposition_to_future_extension

That was LA Times' opinion, not the reason for the opposition. Anyone who calls LA Times unbiased is either delusional or just lying. > Republican lawmakers have vowed to oppose any future attempt to extend the copyright term. Legal experts noted that later versions of Mickey Mouse created after Steamboat Willie will remain copyrighted, and Disney's recent use of the Steamboat Willie version as a logo in its modern movies may allow them to claim protection for the 1928 version under trademark law, as active trademarks can be renewed in perpetuity (so long as the owner can prove using it). This is an UNBIASED version of the same statement, and has the minimum of changes necessary. This should serve as a Biase Objection or whatever the Hell you people call it when you've allowed your personal hatred to poison an article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.10.163.44 (talk) 00:14, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Doing the honors

So, who will do the honors to upload Steamboat Willie on Wikimedia Commons, next New Year's Day? 2804:14D:8084:9693:E088:80CC:B327:D131 (talk) 20:28, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, please. No copyright exceptions for the Disney Company. 91.32.179.16 (talk) 15:43, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

they would have to have it done back in 2018-2017 to extend copyright another 20 years Slinkyw (talk) 00:32, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I might be able to find an high quality video of the whole cartoon on YouTube that we can upload here on January 1, as long as it does not have too much imperfections and dust and dirt. Got to make sure Mickey Mouse looks his best for his public domain debut. HM2021 (talk) 15:20, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve been waiting since 1998 for this moment. 96.2.178.30 (talk) 05:23, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@HM2021: from this discussion, it seems that Commons admins are already planning to undelete the film previously deleted as c:File:Steamboat Willie (1928) by Walt Disney.webm. The version uploaded was a 1080p video from video.disney.com. ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 15:49, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see. What a day January 1 will be. HM2021 (talk) 22:29, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I appreciate your splendid speech. But let's keep this talk page reserved to improvements of the Wikipedia article, shall we? ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 18:51, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations everyone! --PeteStacman24 (talk) 05:55, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What a fantastic day, very happy to see the full film here in high resolution, devoid of copyright protection. --Jrcraft Yt (talk) 06:40, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i still think disney will lobby to extend terms this year for the next disney short one that has mickey speaking, if not then the one in color etc. they let this one lapse because it has mickey not speaking, next year is the real test, disney will lobby hard to make sure copyright is extended for another 20-100 years mark my words to combat AI Slinkyw (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright outside USA?

The work is very famous as a subject of American copyright law, but when does it enter the public domain internationally? Robin S. Taylor (talk) 13:05, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many countries follow rule of the shorter term. They do not grant a longer copyright term than what the country of origin does. So yes, the work enters the public domain in all those countries. Radartooth (talk) 17:52, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thats strange how 1984 is public domain in australia but not the usa Slinkyw (talk) 00:31, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is still copyright restricted in Austria, Germany, and Switzerland. Dialmayo (talk) (Contribs) she/her 15:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disney and Iwerks, or Iwerks and Disney?

How does Wikipedia:MOS dictate we credit multiple directors? The MoMA citation does not justify the credit order. "A Walt Disney Comic by Ub Iwerks" is the title card and is inscrutable without further research. It was common for artists to not be credited for their work back then. See e.g. The Navigator (1924 film) Anonymous-232 (talk) 03:03, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

title slide.

I notice the title slide shows copyright 1929, and shows Mickey with white gloves. Presumably this slide was added some time after the initial release (?). Does there exist an actual original 1928 title slide? Gjxj (talk) 16:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed the same thing, and, concerning the copyright year, I’m not entirely sure. The gloves are no problem, though, as this was his normal promotional appearance, as can be seen on the posters on the main page. It’s possible, though, that they just dated it a year ahead. I see no good reason to suspect that it’s nonoriginal, otherwise. Master Wikinym (talk) 04:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Faithfulness of poster image

The current image of the original-release poster — File:Steamboat Willie 1928 Poster.png — appears to be artificially enhanced. I found another image that seems to hold all the same original image information, but without predictive enhancement, on this page: https://www.animationscoop.com/first-and-foremost-the-significance-of-steamboat-willie/. It’s low-quality, but it looks truer to what I’d expect from reality, and it’s the best I could find. Ought it be replaced, and, afterward, ought it be rotated and cropped in order to straighten it? (I’ve already done that last step, on mine own local devices, but I want to ensure its acceptance by the community before imposing it on the page, especially as a new editor.)

If I’ve broken a rule, or done something else nonideally, please tell me! I’ve just joined, specifically to point this out while the page’s topic was still hot.

Master Wikinym (talk) 22:15, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i'd question whether or not this IS the original poster. Mickey didn't have the gloves yet in 1928 and the overall design in general looks to be 1929 at the earliest, up to 1932-1933. Are we sure it IS the original poster and not a reissue poster (maybe first reissue or produced towards the end of the initial run?) 87.153.254.228 (talk) 08:42, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On the question of if Steamboat Willie became a meme in 2024

@DarknessGoth777 I noticed you reverted my edit by re-adding this article to the category 'Internet memes introduced in 2024'. I want to know if it appropriate to do that, considering Steamboat Willie has been a famous piece of media since 1928. – Howard🌽33 20:59, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah but it became an internet meme this year. DarknessGoth777 (talk) 01:09, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Steamboat Willie has been in the news this year because its copyright status changed, and that's been widely discussed on the internet. But that doesn't mean that the cartoon is an "internet meme", and it certainly wasn't "introduced in 2024". That category is inappropriate. Toughpigs (talk) 01:25, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Guideline at WP:CATV. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Winnie the Pooh went public domain in 2023 and was not a meme. Mickey mouse on the other hand took over the internet 67.240.91.105 (talk) 21:34, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Quality of video

I apologise if I am miss understanding this, but why is the video in such poor quality when it is played on Wikipedia? Thomasfan1000 (talk) 21:51, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Few reviews

Hello, I come here mainly because I have seen that the article has very few reviews in the "Release and reception" section, and although Variety and The Film Daily are reliable sources, it is still insufficient, especially if we are talking about a renowned short like it is. this. And my question is, maybe The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, New York Daily News, The Washington Post, among other newspapers and magazines that were current at that time, did not review the short, nor did they analyze it. I say this because I am surprised by how little care this section takes. 2801:1CA:E:1411:891B:A787:75BA:2719 (talk) 18:56, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At that time, it was papers like Variety, Film Daily, Motion Picture Herald, etc that would publish reviews of shorts, mainly aimed at theater owners who were deciding which shorts to run. I don't believe that major daily papers published reviews of shorts at the time, or probably ever.

Steamboat Willie was certainly popular, but it wasn't considered groundbreaking at the time of release; that's a judgment made by later historians and critics who know how the short influenced animation history. I do agree that the section could use some more modern critics talking about the film; I'll see if I can look a couple up. Toughpigs (talk) 19:07, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Toughpigs: Two months ago you said that you were going to post more reviews, time has passed and nothing you did. I would like to know if you are still interested in looking for more sources of reviews? If it is helpful, the following sources may be useful: this, this, this and this. 2801:1CA:E:1411:62C:D6C:9D57:C071 (talk) 21:13, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Possible GA

Hi, I just saw the article and overall it is in a decent state and with a little work it could reach GA status. So I will contact user @LunaEclipse: to see what he thinks about the idea. 181.204.42.146 (talk) 18:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm turning to user @LunaEclipse: again to see what he thinks about the idea. 181.204.42.146 (talk) 18:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]